Beckenham History

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  1. Hello Beckenham history
    I am looking for a photograph of a picture of a shop which was on the High street called either called:
    Cutts Greengocers or Cutts Grocers. I’m thinking it was 1930’s 1940’s

  2. I was at the mistral that night with a mate of mine. It was fantastic , so much so that I am now a guitarist in an 8 piece ska band ,we live in lanzarote and have been together for 20 years. We are on youtube and are called the skatoons lanzarote. I was 15 years old when i went to the mistral. I think it was a thursday night as we used to go there on a friday to the disco which was under the control of mrs Marshall. I remember the rolls royce on the dance floor and the feel of the bass hitting you in the chest, you couldnt stop from dancing. Ska was better then than than the revival ska. I was a drummer in the 60s . We used to rehearse in the cellar of a sweet shop opposite beckenham baths and alexander school on the corner of queens road. I still do mobile discos in lanzarote and play the original vynyl ska records I bought in the 60s.Happy memories.

  3. Your memories chime with mine, but I have no photos I’m afraid. I belonged to Beckenham Ladies Swimming Club and trained there every day before school and I was awarded one of the scholarships you mentioned. My trainer was Mr Ford and my diving instructor was called Thelma. This would have been in the early 1950s

  4. Hi,
    Does anyone know where Cage Place would have been situated?
    The 1841 census indicates that my ancestors lived there.

    Many thanks,

    Tony.

  5. Hi Ian
    Some time ago, you kindly gave me permission to use some pictures showing buses on my website Red-RF.com, on the page for the history of route 227. I am a committee member of the London Historical Research Group of the Omnibus Society and we are planning to publish a history of the 227 in our journal (which is print plus available only to members of the OS on the website). I wondered whether it would be possible to use some of the images in your gallery (subject to the agreement of the original source, presumably), please? I am thinking of a selection from images 102, 110, 127, 144. If the answer is yes, might higher resolution versions be available?
    Thanks
    Peter

  6. My late Mother attended Raymont School, and I was delighted to see some photographs of the school, but could you please tell me where abouts it was if the building is still in existence?
    Many thanks.

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  8. I would like to use one of the images in some research i am doing on the Dence family of Kingsbury, shortlands, as it shows the house in the picture. Can I use the image provided I acknowledge the source?

  9. Hello,
    When viewing the names on the Memorial I noticed that there was no information entered for W. Brand and it showed 16 possibilities. I can confirm that he was 2177 Private Walter Brand of the 6th Seaforth Highlanders who was killed in action on the 15th June 1915, Festubert, France.. He was the second son of William and Laura Brand of 14 Burnhill Road, Beckenham.
    Mick Trainor.

  10. my grandmother, who lived in Elmers End died at 131 Albermarle road beckenham..in 1962. I was wondering if it was a hospital/ nursing home

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  12. Dear Sir/Madam,

    Do you have a copy of the Plan of the Parish of Beckenham, 1884 that covers Lawn Road and Park Road? I can see extracts from Beckenham (central) and other surrounding areas but sadly not for Lawn Road and Park Road.

    Do you happen to know where an original copy of the map is held?

    With thanks,

    Yours faithfully,
    Sam

  13. I worked at Tights as an upstairs barman from about 1975 to 79. I met the owner Mike while I was on my gap years and working at the Saunders Abbott garage in Albemarle Road, at about the time of the oil crisis. He and the manager both had exotic and thirsty cars, and since we had HUGE petrol tanks, and some very rich customers, I made sure that they always had a good supply 😉 That lead to my job offer. Mike offered me a rare 1950’s Rolls Royce Touring for £250, it needed some work, and due to Uni approaching I had to decline; another great life-choice, as today it would be worth millions.

    For those still in love with her (we ALL were), I’m sure that the lady who took your money was Jodie, she was the manager’s wife, so you stood no chance anyway – lol.

    Yes, I was there in the spam and coleslaw days, fortunate enough to have Carol Mann as my “waitress”; tall, blonde, beautiful and smart, you could not have found a more magnetic lady in the whole of SE London. Despite my witty banter (I wish), many lifts home in my dad’s Singer Vogue, and all the free drinks that I could persuade her to swig, nothing (other than a snog) ever came of it.

    I recall the guest bouncers on a Saturday, Mick McManus and Johnny Kincaid spring to mind. The Radio 1 DJs were on £1k/night even then, and mostly creeps. I do recall being told by the resident DJ that “Fluff Freeman” had tried to ‘have’ him in the downstairs office – that’s both a room, and a euphemism 😉

    MANY thanks to the folks who created this web site, it’s been a fantastic trip down memory lane.

  14. I visited Harvington on most days and never realised so much went on there in past times. I took a short cut to go to the Welcome Research Lab across the playing fields. I do remember the pre-fabs along Eden Park Avenue. There was also a very large old tree held together with iron rods.

  15. Dave mentions that everyone went for a Curry afterwards. For historical reasons does anyone know which curry house they went to? At that time there were 2 in Beckenham, one was The Bengal Cuisine In the High Street a couple of doors away from the Bricklayers Arms. The other was The Curry Cottage in Kelsey Park Lane over the road from The Greyhound pub in the High St. Curry Cottage is still there today.

  16. I was always playing over in The Bethlem Grounds when I was a kid, in the summer there were bales of hay. There was a river that ran through the grounds.

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  18. I was there also. I had rented a candy floss machine and spent the day selling candy floss the proceeds going to the arts lab fund. We used to meet with David in the Tuns to discuss arrangements. David’s dad had left him a Rover P4 but as he hadn’t passed his test my mate sat with him as qualified driver. He swapped the Rover for a Fiat 500 dear dead days!!!

  19. Hi, I remember the Mistral and Times.
    Anyone also remember the Bromley Court Hotel?
    John Lee Hooker.
    Sonny Boy Williamson.
    Alexis Korna with Rod Stewart singing backing vocals.

  20. Update – You can now comment on images in the gallery. It is best to pause the slide show to ensure you are commenting on the correct photo.

  21. Recently (2023) Keith Baldwin found a print of Eden Farm dated 1812 in a British Library archive, showing a building with two wings. Further research found a painting by Peter la Cave 1789 showing the same building which resembles the Bune Gate house annotated as Peter Burrell on the 1769 Andrews Drury and Herbert map of Kent. This confirms that other images of a building were of the later 1820 rebuild for John Woolley. These findings were enabled by internet content so earlier writers can be excused for not finding these needles in several haystacks!

  22. Hi David, Enjoyed reading your recollections. I had a very short window of time seeing bands at the Club (1969 to 70/71) but saw some great acts. I’m sure there are several forgotten but those remembered were The Move (inc Roy Wood & Bev Bevan), Chicken Shack (inc Christine Perfect, later to marry John McVie), John Mayall & the Blusbreakers (Mick Taylor had left for the Stones but I saw him with JM at the Eden Park Hotel about 6 months before), The Nice, Alexus Korner, the group Free who Alexis Korner introduced at the beginning of their session (a 5 man line-up that evening which included a guy on a piano) , Bonzo Dog etc, John Hiseman Colloseum.

  23. Do we know where Betty and Sydney Box were born/lived in Beckenham? I’ve found out that Sydney was living at 11 College Parade in 1932 – is it still standing?

  24. I’m researching the film director Muriel Box and have found out that her husband-to-be, producer Sydney Box, was living in College Parade, Croydon Road in the early 1930s. I can’t find College Parade on a map – does it still exist or has it been demolished?

  25. Hi David,
    Hope you’re well!
    I’m just reaching out as I work for a production company called Wise Owl Films and we’re currently developing a film with the BBC about Tina Turner for our ‘When x Came to Britain’ series. We’ve previously done ones on Bob Marley and Nirvana, and it would be great to speak with you about any memories you have of the Ike & Tina show that took place in 68. More than happy to share my email with you if you have any stories!

    1. Hi Kariim I don’t think I can be any help to you. With the club functioning on two levels, I had my responsibilities on the lower level. Being a music fan I always wanted to see the bands upstairs but that depended on how many people stayed downstairs. The usual thing was that when I announced that the act was starting upstairs, people would go up and I’d usually have a chance to put a track on and go up to take a look. I’d have to come down and keep an eye because most often folk would come back down because they wanted the records rather than the live act. As you will gather, I didn’t often get the chance to see much of bands even when they were at a high point in their careers.
      Good luck and I’ll look forward to seeing your programme on Tina Turner.

  26. Iwas born on 1st Jan 1938 at 80 Croydon Rd, Beckenham which was a maternity unit back in those days. Thirteen years later, when I was 13 yrs old, having passed the 13plus exam, I was excepted into the art section of Beckenham Technical School. My first year there was spent in the very room I was born in at 80 Croydon Rd which was now an annexe of the main school situated on Beckenham Rd. This is the red brick building near The Spa which in those days was Beckenham Swimming Baths. My art tutor was Owen Frampton who was later to tutor his own son Peter Frampton ( Humble Pie) and his good friend David Jones (David Bowie)

  27. I had the misfortune to be involved in a road accident in Beckenham in 1964. When I worked at the Wellcome Research Laboratories. I have followed the long sequence of eventsin the aftermath of the acident, pial records, legal including life-saving treatment at the former Beckenham Hospital, and latterly, at Farnborough Hospital. I was involved in several high level legal issus progressing from County Court to High High Court and then High Court of Appeal in London.

    It has been particularly difficult to locate reports from hospital record and legal reports. I am however willing to share my story “The Long Dark Night” with [your learned society.

  28. Before it was stone Park maternity hospital. I believe it was called beckenham and Penge maternity hosoital. When was that built.

  29. Thank you so much for the information and pictures shown here ( particularly Birkbeck ) as I was born in Piquet Road and went to school in Penge / Beckenham. These pictures bring back so many memories.

  30. Hi, I have been researching for 5 years the stories of the 34 firefighters who died at the old palace school during the blitz, 21 of which were from the Beckenham area. If possible I would like to use some of the pictures from your site on my blog pages giving full credit to yourself, is that possible, please. Kind regards Paul Chiddicks
    https://oldpalaceschoolbombing.com

  31. Nice pic of DB in Croydon Road Rec. I wonder if the photographer knows The National Portrait Gallery has a copy of it in its collection!

    1. Yes I thought that was good, It was such a good time! Do you think they will hold another one like in 2013?

  32. 2019 Stanley’s niece,Glenda Thornton age 82, visited Arras Memorial and saw Stanley’s name. She was taken to the present day field where his last battle took place when Stanley was killed and left a small poppy cross. Glenda Lindsay and Valerie Sheldon are the two surviving members of the large Thornton family. Tom William & Clara Thornton had 8 children,4 boys &4 girls. Victor the youngest & father of Glenda& Valerie,was the only one to marry!

  33. Not until this week was Norman Shellibeer Doust recognised as an official CWGC casualty . I first noticed his grave in 2017 at Bournemouth East Cemetery G3-97 . due to TB contacted whilst serving. I obtained a Death Certificate and submitted it to the MoD via a group called “in from the cold ” along with proof of cemetery records . His parents are also buried alongside him . I can supply you with images of his headstone

  34. Fascinating, I’ve always wondered about the station name Kent house since travelling g to school by train some 50 years ago.

  35. Hi there, we have a large metal sign in our garden that’s from Clock house station. We’ve had it for years. Was wondering if you had any photos that it might be pictured in. Happily forward a photo of it to you.

  36. Hi Paul, good to hear from you and great to be reminded of people I remember but whose names I’d forgotten. Yes, lots of good times when I was there but those early years were definitely the best.

    David

  37. I was born in No. 2 Kent House Farm Cottage in 1936. The whole family were brought up there from my Grandparents who had 5 children. When my Grandparents died my Father and Mother, my Brother and I, plus an Uncle and Aunt and their 2 children stayed living there until 1957 when we had to leave because the cottages were being demolished. We then moved to Clockhouse Road. I have really fond, happy memories of that time of my childhood, it has been really interesting reading about the house at the end of the Lane

    1. Hi Brian, I think you are my mums cousin. My Mum was Margret Roberts and her mum, my nan was Alice Sales and if I’m right you are uncle Bill’s son.

  38. Hi Dave remember you and the club well, my brother Brit and his mate Roger were working there as bouncers when I joined the staff of glass collectors along with my wife to be Moira (we are still together after 51 years).Also on bar duty Irish Tom and Tony great blokes.Really enjoyed the few early we worked there happy days, take care Paul & Moira. Just remembered Eugenia and Phil mossman.

    Ors

  39. Hi Ian
    Good to hear from you and I think i remember you. As a musician (still gigging occasionally) and a big music fan I couldn’t understand that about live music and records either. I’m with you on Jigsaw too. Excellent band.

    David

  40. Remember Dave well, I was Mikes racing mechanic at the time and also worked behind the bar if shorthanded. Could never understand why some guests would be dancing to one of Dave’s records whilst the number he was playing was being performed live upstairs.
    Remember doing most of the carpentry for the refurb with secondhand seats and coloured perspex from the exhiibition construction company round the corner.
    Mike used to double book acts like Long John Baldry and I would have to whisk them down to His other venue (Bridge Country Club) near Canterbury for a Midnight gig.
    Was a hard life, Wednesday practice at Brands, Friday the Mistrale, Saturday prep cars for racing (usually late start due to headache), Sunday race day and rest of week tinker with cars.
    Great Days, and I still say the best group to never make it big was Jigsaw.
    Ian Campbell

  41. Private Harry HARDWICK: Husband of Florence Louisa (Gibbs) Hardwick of Durban Road, Beckenham and son of Henry and the late Harriet Hardwick of Fairlight Terrace, Blandford Road, Beckenham

  42. I am interested in joining a Beckenham history forum like the one Croydon and Surrounding areas has on Facebook. I was born in Beckenham in 1947 but emigrated to California in 1968. Can you let me know what is available. Thanks.

    You can join this website Forum here https://mcleanmuir.proboards.com

    Or you could search Facebook using Beckenham groups, there are a few to be found. Admin

  43. Hi Richard,

    I recall Peter Frampton and Billy Idol’s names both being mentioned but I couldn’t say. I imagine various celebs visited the place but Bowie and Stewart are the only ones I have definite knowledge of.

    Best wishes

    David

    1. Just in passing Bowie and Peter Frampton early gigs were at lecture Hall West Wickham and incidentally Geoff Britton played Drums with Manfred Mann and was Wings drummer for a time Venus and Mars , Juniors Farm era, Geoff was one of us who went to Beckenham ballrooms and the Bromley Court Hotel back in the day

  44. Hi David,

    I really appreciate your reply. Every bit of information helps. One last question: Aside from Bowie and Rod Stewart, did other artists frequent the Mistrale as audience members? Thank you. If you remember anything else, please feel free to email me at richard@muskratpond.com.

    Cheers,
    Richard

  45. Hi Richard, thanks very much, I’m glad you enjoyed it. As you say, it was a long time ago but I recall that I was there that night and I have a memory of seeing Desmond Dekker perform.

    The club was on two levels with live acts performing upstairs. Both levels would carry on independently much of the time, so when a popular band was on most people would go upstairs. I would frequently put an LP on and go up to take a look but If people wandered downstairs again then I’d resume the normal show.

    So I’m sorry to tell you that I don’t recall any details of their performance that night and that’s true of most of the acts that appeared. I wish you luck with your research and I’m sorry that I can’t be of more help.

    David

  46. Hi David, were you at the Mistrale Club for Desmond Dekker’s performance in 1969? I’m doing some research for a book and I’m tracking down memories from Dekker’s shows during that time.

  47. Hi David, I thoroughly enjoyed your post! I came across it through my research on Desmond Dekker’s performances during that moment (1969, in particular). Were you at the Mistrale Club when Dekker performed there in 1969? Do you have any memories of that show? A long time ago, I know…

  48. Horace Brackley was my great grandfather. The family are very proud of the service he gave this country. Remembering him this Remembrance Day and always .

  49. I was born at Mount Pleasant 70 years ago which I think was off Stanmore Terrace (off Kelsey Park Road). It was an opening leading to a terrace of cottages and gardens with a path as a right of Way connecting the row of cottages. It seems to have disappeared according to Google maps, so I wonder if anyone can remember the area and what happened to it. I’d be grateful for a reply as I am tracing my first steps! Many thanks ?

  50. :Jane coull. Old OS MAPS on nls Kent xv or national library of Scotland might show something circa 1860 1890. As you are in the old Langley estate there are several possibilities. Rebuilds or demolitions of various buildings gates or walls. A more precise location could help

  51. I hope someone can help,we have just bought a house in Hayes Way and in tidying the garden we have come across a large amount of old style/handmade looking bricks.Does anyone know if ,once upon a time there was farm buildings here?

  52. Thank you.
    Furlough time and likely redundancy on my plate, it is fascinating to have time explore the history of the area I have lived in and loved for over 30 years. G

  53. I think this is incorrect I think it should be Willian Charles Henry Davies 4th Btn Royal Marine Light Infantry who took part in the battle of Zeebrugge and died the following day the 24th April 1918 of his wound in Dover Hospital. William had a full military funeral which was recorded in the local newspaper and he is buried in Elmers End Cemetery. Son of Louisa ( nee ) Smith and Arthur Davis (sic) of Woodbine Grove Penge. Born 11/9/1895 aged 23 at his death

  54. David Alston’s memories of Beckenham Technical School say that the Technical Institute dated back to 1901. I believe in fact that the building was Beckenham Grammar School until about 1930 when the Grammar School moved to new buildings on Penge High Street, and had to have “Penge” include in its title. My father, his brother, myself, my brother and my cousin all attended the Grammar School.

    1. I think you are correct about the site of Beckenham Boys Grammar school. I remember my father telling me that he went to the grammar school (that would have been about 1920) in the building that was situated just in front of Beckenham Baths, before it moved to Penge High Street

  55. In the light of some other information, Eden Park appears to have been in the Kelseys land purchased by Peter Burrell in 1688 although some parts were then owned by the St.Johns and may have passed through the ownership of John Cator. I cannot find a record for a lease of 1782 but Bromley Historic Collections have the 1794 record and a subsequent surrender of the lease in 1825. Eden Park was purchased by John Woolley and is leased to Edward Lawford in the 1838 Tithe. If the 1782 lease is accurate then 1782 – Eden Park; William Eden, 1744-1814, leased land in Beckenham from Peter Burrell in about 1782. source: Copeland and Beckenham History. The lease was extended in 1794 and 1824 but surrendered soon after. Eden Park house was situated where Crease Park is today. The land on which Eden Park was established has been said to have been part of Langley but comparing the old maps we have access to puts in Kelsey estate land and even then some parts were earlier part of St. John property associated with Beckenham Manor and may have passed through the ownership of John Cator. The confusion lies in the merging ownership of Kelsey with Langley under the Burrells. The National Library of Scotland OS maps collection Kent sheet xv can be shown overlaid on a modern satellite image putting the house in Crease Park. This is on the west side of Village Way and Kelsey Lane in land that was mostly acquired by Peter Burrell in 1688 and illustrated in the Burrell maps of 1723 and 1735.

    Abstract of two leases granted by Sir Peter Burrell and the trustees of his will to the Right Honourable Earl of Auckland of a farm in Beckenham, Kent. The first is dated 16 August 1794 and is for 60 years and the other is dated the 30 January 1824 and is for 32 years. Also includes an abstract of the surrender of the property dated 25 January 1825. ( Ref 841/3/1/10 Source: BHC)

  56. Reply to Andre Boxus
    Looks like Ernest was Camille J.E(rnest) Rousseau.
    St. Benedicts was demolished so maybe the records were moved to St. Edmunds RC church, Beckenham.

    the civil registration office was Bromley, Kent, UK volume ref 2a page ref 1145
    Evelyn F. Ayling and Camille J.E.Rousseau
    start here if you want a copy of the certificate which would have the exact date. The index is only to nearest 3 months. Jan-Mar 1916
    https://www.bromley.gov.uk/info/200010/births/397/applying_for_birth_death_marriage_and_civil_partnership_certificates

  57. Good evening,
    Please could you inform me about mariage of Mr Evelyn Ayling and Ernest Rousseau in St Benedict church in your town about 1917/1918;Son Camille Jean born 16/9/1920 in Hemden(?)was baptized in Belgium1340 -Mousty on 8/1922
    Thanks for info
    Regards
    André Boxus

  58. I have two old postcards of Church Hill c1918 and Old Purley High St in 1903. If you tell me where I will upload them.

  59. Subsequent to timeline additions suggested, several maps have resurfaced who’s dates allow for analysis of land ownership changes, along with documents researched at several archives.
    1723 to 1735 two maps drawn up for the Burrells showing lands from Elmers End in the west through Kelsey to Woolseys Farm(Shortlands House) in the east. Also a
    1735 map is drawn of Langley but only exists as a copy drawn for the Goodharts but the fair copy shows landowners of the early 1700’s Tolsons/Tillys. In
    1766 a map of Foxgrove Manor showing land divided between Jones Raymond, John Cator and Frederick St. John subsequent to the division of Foxgrove Manor by Mary Tilly’s will. An undated map of circa
    1740 of the south part of Langley Park under Jones Raymond after Hugh Raymonds death.
    1768 the copy of a 1623 Beckenham Manor map is produced showing lands in and around Beckenham as well as through Penge to Rockhills at what is now Crystal Palace.
    1776 a second map drawn of Foxgrove Manor though covering a smaller area than the former.
    1809 a map of the Burrell estates under Peter Burrell IV Baron Gwydir showing their lands south of Beckenham after exchanges with John Cator in 1793. In
    1833 a map of the Cator estates under John Barwell Cator, John Cator’s main beneficiary showing land mainly north of Beckenham and from Sydenham and Penge to Southend, Lewisham. A subsequent Cator estate map drawn in
    1860’s but updated to 1890’s still showing Beckenham as predominantly rural.
    From wills, birth and death records we can trace sevaral land ownership changes from the mid 1600’s

  60. MAL,

    Would you like to do the complete update using the existing pages? Contact me via the contact button on the site.

  61. More has been gleaned about Foxgrove which is described as a Manor in Hasted, and he it seems copied material pre 1659 from Thomas Philipott’s Villare Cantianum. We can aid Philipott’s description by translating his dating method ie 3r year of Henry VIII to a calendar year. Philipott attributes it to a John de Foxgrove and a John Foxesgrove was a landlord in the Lay Subsidy Roll of 1348, but not for Beckenham. A family named Stommeshulle are mentioned in the Lay Subsidy Roll and it would be tempting to identify them with Stumpshill which is on the edge of Foxgrove Manor or maybe even Cleyhurst (Clayhill?). A family named Grene are listed in Philipott and two documents reside in the National Archive relating to them and Foxgrove.
    Though Hasteds post 1659 update is helpful its not comprehensive, can’t blame him he was covering all of Kent. With input from another researcher, The ownership from the Leigh Family via the Tolsons, Tillys, Timewell, Bridges and Grove families can be traced to the Raymonds, Burrells, St. Johns and finally Cators. Its a complex process involving sales to settle debts, wills without direct heirs, court cases to settle disputes, the division of Foxgrove Manor among distant relatives, a degree of rejoining under John Cator and the final dismemberment under John Barwell Cator and subsequent Cators to its final demise under the spread of suburbia. Apart from the part which constitutes Beckenham Place Park. Evidence lies in Foxgrove Manor maps of 1766 and 1776, Cator estate plans of 1833 and 1868, Burrell maps from 1723 and 1735, Beckenham Manor map of 1768 and various documents in Bromley Historic Collections, the National Archive, and elsewhere. As with most of the estates constituting Beckenham Foxgrove included some outlying fields or woods and the overall result was a mishmash of landlords and tenants. Stone Farm mentioned here was under the landlordship of Foxgrove along with parts which became part of other estates ie Barnfield Wood, exchanged by Cator with the Burrells. The original Stone Farm was exchanged again between Cator and Burrells and was absorbed into Kelsey grounds, the farm being moved further along Wickham Road. When the full account is written up it would be nice to get it on this site if possible but I’m finding that the goal posts move and a more easily editable medium would be desirable.

  62. Reading and contributing to the thread has given me some options regarding searching New Farm Bromley.
    ( Elmers End Farm ,beckenham,kent. ) at the National Archives
    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=Elmers+End+Farm+%2Cbeckenham%2Ckent.
    gets five interesting searches

    “Elmer Farm”,Elmers End (plan)
    date:1878
    Sale particulars
    Held by Historic Collections Bromley Library
    Reference: 907/2/7 (Maps & Plans)

    Duplicate copy conveyance for £3,520 of part of Lerchins farm, to permit access to Mid Kent railway line; 3 schedules; plan
    Elmers End (plan)
    Spelling variations: Lurchens/Lurchins and Lerchins
    1883
    Held by Historic Collections Bromley Library
    Reference: 728

    Valuation of Farms
    Gordon Ward collection.ESTATE PAPERS.
    1816-1828
    Held by Kent Historic and Library Centre
    Reference: U442/E43

    Richard Adams family of Beckenham
    1825-1936
    Quote “Nearly all the documents in this collection arise from the Will of Edward Richards Adams of Elmer Lodge, Beckenham, proved in 1856”

    Note: The reference number looks incorrect for Bromley library because the National Archives only gives a brief précis and where search results are held.

    Example: Click the name Richard Adams family of Beckenham in National archives
    > 81 – Bromley Historic Collections
    click > This record (browse from here by hierarchy)
    Click Maps right of page
    which should bring up
    1) Land
    2) Elmer Farm
    3) etc..

  63. Lovely memories David. I was the manager of Gas Works. David Bowie got to know of us when we provided the improvised music for a one-man mime and dance show at the Drury Lane Arts Lab by The Great Orlando (Lindsey Kemp’s partner). Bowie then invited Gas Works to play at the Beckenham Arts Lab several times and they also played at the Free Festival. When Starman became a hit in America we were invited to the big house for a party to welcome David home from the States. He travelled home by theTrans Siberian Railway. He was scared of flying. We met Tony Visconti at the party and when Tony got his first independent deal to make records his first two artists were Sparks and Gas Works. There’s an appreciative and truthful paragraph about his involvement with Gas Works in his recent auto-biography.

    1. Hi Bob.
      Wow, good to see your post ! I asked Tony V a little while back whether he know of the whereabouts of John & Mick. Said he hadn’t heard of them for some while. A bit of history – Tony Kingsbury and I were at the 1969 Beckenham gig. We ran folk clubs and concerts around East London ( Leyton, Walthamstow ) and West Essex ( Loughton, Epping) we had Gas Works many times on at our clubs. I seem to remember in those hazy days coming with my band ( Annick and John. / collectively Thyme) down to visit yourself and the guys at your house in ( Sth ?) London. I remember having a good old reminisce plus a game of tennis!!
      Fab days. We’re still running clubs on an ad hoc basis. Be good to hear from you Bob.
      Terry.

  64. The 1723 Burrell map which Borrowman copied has resurfaced thanks to the tireless research of Keith Baldwin of Shortlands. To be precise the 1723 is a bit worse for wear but is copied by pidduck in 1735. The maps are in the possession of the Burrell family. Keith and I have photos of the maps. Another map in Kent archive from 1736 of properties belonging to Thomas motley shows Thornton’s corner as a property called The Mead with formal rectangular water features. These were later relandscaped into a more irregular lake as the Cedars. The village pond was moved and reshaped several times being approximately in front of the current closed public convenience (inconvenience). The series of maps now rediscovered show a pictorial chain of change of both structures and owners. The Burrell maps illustrate the change from ownership by the Tolsons and Tilly’s of several sites to the Raymond family and the acquisitions of John Cator have been more comprehensively traced by Keith Baldwin .
    The various date related snapshots are perhaps best described by a timeline approach.
    Thomas Motleys property descended via his daughter to Frances Austin thence to Frances Motley Austin. These included Elmer’s End farm and Thayer’s farm.
    The maps also show several lesser landowners.

  65. A map from 1736 showing Thayer’s farm owned by Thomas motley also shows part of clockhouse grounds as the gardens of William Lethieullier

  66. A timeline is a great idea but needs expanding. Any chance of getting edits into it?
    e.g.(just few of those possible)
    1345 The Lay Subsidy Roll lists names of taxpayers in Beckenham, some appear in history such as Brun or Bruin, Langele and others suggest place names ie Stomeshulle for Stumpshill and Cleyhurst for Clay Hill.
    1623 A map of Beckenham Manor shows it is divided between Henry Snellyer and John Dalston as a result of 2 earlier heiresses marrying while owning the two halves.
    1659 Thomas Philipott records that Lady Christian Leigh widow of Sir Francis Leigh is in occupation of Langley Park.
    1723 Amy Raymond marries Peter Burrell (the second of four Peter Burrells in Beckenham). She is a daughter of Hugh Raymond who will become a local landlord.
    1732 Hugh Raymond buys Langley and Simpsons Place in Bromley.
    1737 Jones Raymond inherits Langley
    1749/51 Frederick St.John, Viscount St.John and Viscount Bolingbroke inherits the Manor of Beckenham from his father John, and title Bolingbroke from his Uncle
    1756 Peter Burrell of Langley dies and Amy his widow inherits his properties.
    1760 is the date of John Cator building a house on Stumpshill according to his father in law Peter Collinson and the date of Cator purchasing land around Beckenham from the heirs of the Tolson/Tilly family

    PS 1792/93 is the date Burrell Lord Gwydyr exchanges land with Cator. Foxgrove Manor had been divided but all came together again under John Cator in this year.

  67. More farm information can be gleaned from the rediscovered maps. New Farm mentioned here relates to Elmers End Farm which was owned by Thomas Motley in 1736 (map by Brasier in Kent archive). It was bordered by Elmers End Green on one side, Elmers End Road and the viscinity of Churchfields Road. Thomas Motley also owned Thayers Farm (spelled Thayres on the map) and The Ridge in the High Street on Thorntons corner, later to become the Cedars? Thomas Motleys daughter married Francis Austin and their son Francis Motley Austin inherited the property. Thayers Farm is shown as owned by G.Austin on Cator estate map of 1833. Probably George Austin, son of Francis Motley Austin. This is the same Austin/Austen family as Jane Austen who was a niece. The Austens also owned a lot of land around Kippington, Sevenoaks and elsewhere. Some coming via Thomas Motley who was a dyer based in Southwark. Potential link with the Lethieulliers who were also in the wool trade and some were dyers.
    New Farm was near Shortlands and bordered the parishes of Hayes and Bromley belonged to the Burrells, leased by them to William Angas in their 1809 Estate book. Elmers End Farm and Thayers Farm were both divided into Old and New Farms in 1736 and Elmers End was divided between Nicholas and Daniel Hodges. Thayers new farm was leased to William Lewin and the old farm retained by Thomas Motley. The maps tell more pictorially than can be related here. I’m sure Kent Archive would allow some reproduction permission if sought.

  68. Well almost by accident a map held in Kent Archive shows the farms owned by Thomas Motley in 1736. These include Elmers End Farm, Thayers Farm tho spelt Thayre and let to William Lewin. And The Mead which is the site of what became the Cedars in the high street.
    The map was drawn for Thomas Motley and though not yet confirmed I suspect these passed into the possession of Thomas Motley Austin when Thomas Austen/Austin married into the Motleys in the late 18th / early 19th C. Motley Austin is shown on the 1809 Burrell estate map as owning Elmers End Farm territory and an area over what is now the Greyhound pub. Thayer or Thayre probably was an individual but so far untraced, but before 1730 I guess. Thayers Farm is bounded on two sides by William Lethieullier of Kent House and Clockhouse at that time and by John St. John on two other sides (of Beckenham Manor father of Frederick St. John? who later sold the manor of Beckenham to Cator). Another map looking similar to the work of Rob Copeland, shows the whole of Beckenham in the 18th century and is compiled from maps we have rediscovered and perhaps some not yet rediscovered. For me the maps show more information pictorially than can be explained in words. The footprints of various buildings and landscaping of grounds as well as bordering landowners who may or may not have been recorded in parish records and histories. If Bromley archive, Kent archive and other sources could be consulted I’m sure this website could benefit from images of the various maps and documents.
    In any case the farming landscape was more divers than the impression related here. And we can push back the date and detail of available information.

  69. I lived in Blandford Avenue until 1967 and went to Churchfields Road School. I attended Sunday School and church at St Augustines. The priest in charge was Father Skipper.
    I remember the horse and cart delivering weekly fruit and vegetables from Bates the shop in Churchfields Road near the Working Mens Club, they had a stable in the yard behind the shop. We also used Prouds shop at the bottom of Churchfileds Road for groceries. There were several shops in Churchfields including a bakery called Verney who baked on the premises. Next to the mission in Churchfields there was land for the fair ground people to over winter and children from these families would attend our school then they would move on.

  70. William Lethieullier in his Will of 1739 leave Kent House referred to as a farm to his second son, Manning Lethieullier along with messuages in Lewisham, Penge Green and Bromley. Other property referred to as at Sutton and Hone is left to his eldest son John, a third son William is left land at Dartford, Erith and what looks like Bexley. His wife Mary (nee Manning) is left a dwelling house in Beckenham believed to be Clockhouse? for her lifetime. The will extends to four pages with various bequests to sons and daughters and other acquaintances. The information on property is at least a source of clues for further research.

  71. Hi, further to the material we produced about Beckenham Place, it seems to have wet the appetite of at least one other researcher and the information about farms and estates pre 1800 is quite extensive. Kent House Farm seems to have been part of Lewisham and Sydenham at one time as records for it are in Lewisham but the Lethieullier family refer to it and a residence in Beckenham, probably Clockhouse in Wills. Thayers Farm is still a mystery as any search for a Thayer family hasn’t returned any results relating to Beckenham property. Along with a fellow researcher who has found most material, a family of Pughs and Willis’s had property referred to as a mansion and farm at Elmers End bordering and surrounded by Burrell property and additionally leasing some fields from the Burrells around 1780. The Willis family also occupied the Oakery along Bromley Road at one time. Woolseys Farm at Clay Hill has been the source of some information, The Burrells had it in the 1720’s and exchanged it with Viscount Bolingbroke in 1757 for the old manor house opposite the church. Woolseys Farm then was bought by John Cator as part of the Beckenham Manor purchase in 1773. Cator’s nephew John Barwell Cator subsequently sold it in the early/mid 1800’s. I’ll leave that story to a fellow researcher. It is evident that there were more farms, messuages, and smallholdings around and between the main estates than appreciated. Even the estates and manors contained farms that were leased. Although perhaps outside of Beckenham and in West Wickham, the estate of Langley Park or Place was divided into four farms under the ownership of Jones Raymond circa 1760 evidenced by a map in the British Library. The farms and leaseholder can be identified from the map key or legend. Early maps of Beckenham Place show a farm very close to the junctionof Foxgrove Road and Southend Road at the time when Southend Road was created in 1785. The absence of some maps and documentary evidence at least not yet discovered makes filling in the gaps difficult but a picture is emerging. The Burrell estate shown in a map of 1809 incorporates several leased properties, some farms, some residences and the mill at Glassmill Lane, all described in an estate book with field names and some annotation of what crops were grown in a particular though not identified year. The leaseholders are named with some changes annotated in pencil probably near the time of the Burrell estate sale in 1820.
    A curious discovery is the Lay Subsidy Roll of circa 1340, pre the Black Death, which lists taxpayers/landowners in Beckenham. Some names may be clues to local places ie Stomshulle for Stumpshill? Cleyhurst for Clay Hill? and other names more easily recognized from Hasted’s history, Langley or Langele and Bruin. Maybe getting too remote; Hauek could be Hawk as in Hawksbrook which appears in maps of the Langley Park area and survives as an early name for the Beck river. Some of the material is quite entertaining ie why did Mary Lethieullier leave one daughter only one shilling in her Will when the family fortune was significant (even though that daughter had been left a significant sum by the father John). Although I haven’t fully filled in the blanks this may have been a stepmother/stepdaughter situation. curiouser and curiouser….

  72. Additional to the conversation about Kelsey lakes. Rocque 1746 attempts to show landscaping of Kelsey but I’d take it with a large pinch of salt as the roads are distorted to fit between certain landmarks. Andrews, Drury and Herbert in 1769 seems to show two or maybe three lakes with what is now the upper silt trap. Certainly the drop in landscape lends itself to this, in addition over in Harvington what was Eden lodge had ponds and a weir in its grounds at a later date. Andrews also has roads distorted following Rocque’s layout. Rocque also calls Kelsey lane Churhock Lane and other names are different from later maps.

  73. The Lodge mentioned is The Haven, the building is still there. Beau Lodge was once known as The Whitmores. Sandy Lane was an extension of Kelsey Lane.

  74. Am I right in thinking that the lodge referred to as being part of Sandhills School is what is now known as Beau Lodge ? This would make sense to me as I seem to remember that there is,, or was, something like a school bell outside Beau Lodge (I must pop along there and see if it is still there). The name of Sandhills School also seems to tie in with my belief that an earlier name for at least that part of Kelsey Lane was Sandy Lane. Do you know if that is right as well, please ?

  75. Excellent site. Minuscule point: Anthony Eden died in 1977 not 1877. I believe his wife is either still alive or has only recently died. David

  76. Stone Farm is mentioned in Hasted’s History of Kent as being owned by John Cator. A map of Foxgrove Manor for 1766 shows Stone farm but the position of the farm is about half way between Chancery Lane and Hayes Lane. A later map of circa 1780 shows the farm described as Barnfield House let to Mr Porson. A land exchange between Cator and Peter Burrell describes some fields being exchanged probably because Burrell was improving his Kelsey grounds. I was recently contacted by Mr. Stephen Kirkman whose ancester Jacob Kirkman, a harpsichord maker, is recorded as leasing Stone Farm from Cator in the 1770’s and as having taken out insurance on the property. Around 1791/3 Cator exchanged Stone Farm and other land with Peter Burrell/Baron Gwydyr so that the Burrells had land mainly to the south of Beckenham and Cator estates were mainly to the north of Beckenham. The 1780 map shows a substantial amount of ‘Cator’ land around Kelsey and Langley. After Burrell acquired Stone Farm he absorbed the land into Kelsey grounds and moved the farm nearer Hays Lane as shown in 1809, Burrell had a map of his estates produced along with a book describing leased property including Eden Park/Farm. On that map, Stone farm is not mentioned but Home Farm is pretty much on the site of the Chinese Garage after South Eden Park Road was built but before Stone Park Avenue was built. Burrell had landscaped the area of the original Stone Farm as part of his Kelsey grounds. The maps are in the British Library and demonstrate how change has taken place very frequently. What Burrell established as Home Farm presumably got renamed Stone Farm to revive the name.

  77. THE CHINESE GARAGE. I remember the Chinese garage back in the late 60s and 1970s when it was the garden was beautifully kept and there were fish in the pond. Local history websites say it was actually built as a garage but I thought I read somewhere that it was a sort of folly in the grounds of Langley court /house owned by the Bucknall family? Does anyone know please. I want to write an article for the Bromley District Talking News. Thanks.

  78. I was born in number 93 Churchfields Rd in1935. The youngest of six children. I now live in Brisbane Australia.

  79. Kings Hall road’s name is derived from one of the field names on the Beckenham Manor estate plan dated 1768 (copied from a 1723 version now presumed lost). The 1768 map is in the British Library presumed to be from Burrell family papers. Redons road similarly derived

  80. The George Inn was at some time between 1760 and 1806 one of the properties owned by John Cator. It may have remained part of Cator property until 1825 or so. John Cator also owned the Crooked Billet in Penge and the Green Man at Southend which he later exchanged with the Forsters for a mill and land in the 1790’s.
    The Three Tuns was owned by the Burrell’s up until Peter Burrell/Lord Gwydyr’s Beckenham estates were sold after his death in 1820.
    This is extracted from map evidence found in the British Library. one landlord/tenant of the Three Tuns renamed it the London Coffee House during the 19th Century, I believe a photo exists somewhere.
    Some of the land behind the Greyhound was at one time owned by Francis Motley Austin of Sevenoaks. He is reputed to be a great uncle of Jane Austen. His land holdings also included some area near Churchfields Road and at Bellingham. (from map evidence on the Burrell estate maps in the British Library dated 1809.)

  81. The deeper you dig the more you’ll find. Court records from Kings Bench and Chancery reveal that the Manor of Beckenham sold to Cator by Bolingbroke was in fact already under lease to Mrs Margaret Hare and Hans Winthrop Mortimer. Cator did not acquire full possession until 1780 after a legal battle with Margaret Hare. Bolingbroke had previously exchanged the manor house and grounds with the Burrells who gave him Woolseys Farm in exchange. Presumably Bolingbrokes sale to Cator included Woolseys Farm and other property in Foxgrove Manor and around Kelseys. From analysis of archived maps, documents and court records.
    Cator was still pursuing recompense from Bolingbrokes estate trustees as late as 1787 by suing the Earl of Pembroke and the Earl of Guildford. A (Mr.) Goodright also sued Cator for loss of tenure in 1780 as he was a sub lessee of Mrs Hare. It needs a lawyer to unravel the whole of it. But ‘1773’ does not describe the situation especially as the part of Beckenham Manor in Beckenham Place is just the remaining bit of Stumps Hill Wood. http://www.beckenhamplaceparkfriends.org.uk history sections for fuller account.

  82. The 1825 Act of Parliament acquired by John Barwell Cator lists among the Cator properties The George Inn and the Crooked Billet in Penge. As it appears that Peter Burrell/Baron Gwydyr owned most of the south side of the high street up to his death in 1820 the full details of the disposal of his properties are little known? Baron Gwydyr’s father, another Peter Burrell , son of Amy Burrell, exchanged Woolsey’s Farm, Clay Hill for the Old Manor house in 1757 with Viscount Bolingbroke, but by 1809 it is shown on an estate map as belonging to Mr Hoare. I’m guessing that either or both Peter Burrells either lived at the old manor or Langley Place/Park as they styled themselves ‘of Langley’. They also had the property in Whitehall still named Gwydyr House and as MP’s for Haslemere would want to be near Westminster.
    The estate maps of the Cator estate for 1833 and later show them owning land to the north of the town extending to Penge and Sydenham and Southend, Others such as the Hoare family and Goodharts must have acquired most of the south side.

  83. just a comment for good orders sake. Its been discovered that John Cator didn’t intend to develop the estate requesting in his Will that it shouldn’t be broken up, but his nephew and heir, John Barwell Cator and other estate trustees acquired an Act of Parliament permitting leases and exchanges of property from 1825 and the Cators moved their main estate to Woodbastwick in Norfolk.
    Pat was instrumental in us becoming aware of this and her childhood memories probably sparked her interest in local history….. and passed the interest on to us and others. Thanks Pat.

  84. As Hasted quotes Philipott in some of his references, I found that the History of Kent Thomas Philipott produced in 1659 is available online and as a paperback reproduction. The following is the Kelsey description but source references are difficult to find in any accounts. see https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo2/A54665.0001.001/1:7.2?rgn=div2;view=toc;q1=Kent+–+Description+and+travel
    Original spellings from a retyped version.
    “Kelseys lies likewise in this Parish (Beckenham), and may justly exact our Notice; by Deeds written in a Character that hath an Aspect upon the Reign of Henry the third, John de Kelsey, William de Kelsey, and others of that Sirname are represented to have an In∣terest in this Seat, and from hence it is probable the Kelseys of Surrey did derive their first Extraction, however by the Injuries of Time they have been in succeeding Generations cast under the umbrage of an obscurer Fortune: But I return, After this Family had deserted the Possession of this place, which was before the latter End of Richard the the second, I find the Brograves stepped in, and by purchase became Lords of the Fee, a Family which in very old Deeds writ themselves Burgrave, and sometimes Boroughgrave, though now a more easie Pronunciation hath melted it into Brograve, which represents the Etymologie of the Name, to have been in its Origi∣nal perfectly Saxon. In the year 1479, there was a License granted (as appears by the Records of Rochester) to William Brograve by the then Bishop of that Diocess, to erect an Oratory or Chapple at his Mannor-house of Kelseys, the Vestigia or Reliques of which are yet obvious to an inquisitive Eye, and from this William did the Title and possession in an even Current come down to Mr. Thomas Brograve, who being not many years since deceased, his Widow Mrs. Martha Brograve now in respect of Join∣ture, enjoys the present Possession of it.”

  85. If found this reference in the National Archive website:
    Kent House
    Indenture regarding title to Kent House Farm.
    This record is held by Lewisham Local History and Archives CentreSee contact details
    Reference: A62/6/61
    Title: Indenture regarding title to Kent House Farm.
    Description: Anne Loveday, Jonathan Brundrett, Alexander Baring, Sir Thomas Baring, John Cator, William Cator, Bertie Cornelius Cator and John Foakes.
    Details of other agreements receited – Indenture dated 27 Aug. 1691 between John Smallbone and Mary his wife and Benjamin Hodgekins;
    Act 5 and 6 Ann to rectify mistake in marriage settlement of William Peck – partitioning between William Pierrepoint and Hon. Charles Egerton, through which inheritance became absolutely vested in Jno. Reynolds.
    Indenture dated 6 Dec. 1706 between Jno. Reynolds, Lancelot Stephens, Edward Corbett, Wm. Peere Williams, William Williams; (Mortgage)
    Lease and release dated 6 and 7 April 1709 between Jno. Reynolds and Sir John Lethieullier;
    Indenture of Assignment of same date, Jno. Reynolds Wm. Peere Williams, William Williams, Sir John Lethieullier Samuel Lethieullier and John Lethieullier
    Lease and release dated 25 and 26 March 1778 between John Green Lethieullier and Susannah his wife, William Octber, John Seaber, Robt. Morphett, Thomas Symonds, Thom Hearden, George Jennett, John Kilvington, John Harrison and Thomas Lucas and a recovery of part of premises Trinity Term, 18 Geo.III.
    Thomas Lucas devises property to widow Elizabeth, who remarries John Julius Angerstein. John Beach, Thomas Plummer and Joseph Paice trustees.
    Indenture of Bargain and Sale dated 17 Feb. 1797 Joseph Paice, Thos. Plummer, Sir Francis Baring, Alexander Baring and Charles Wall.
    Details of wills, dates of death, etc. of Elizabeth Angerstein, Sir Francis Baring, Chas. Wall John Cator, Bridget Cator, Elizabeth Scott, Geo. Sparkes.
    Act 6 Geo IV enables John Cator to grant building leases.
    Details of dates of death, wills etc. of Samuel Lethieullier, William Lethieullier, Mary Tooke, Sarah Loveday, Dame Anne Hopkins, John Loveday, John Lethieullier, Smart Lethieullier, Charles Lethieullier, Elizabeth Lethieullier (marriage to Jno. Goodere), Mary Hulse, who died intestate. Letters of Admon. to Jonathan Brundrett.
    Indenture of Lease and release dated 26 and 27 July 1828, Alexander Baring, Sir Thos. Baring, John Cator, Wm. Cator and Bertie C. Cator in trust for Ann Loveday and John. Brundrett.
    Details of field names and acreages of land on Kent House Farm and Penge Common, with names of tenants.
    Date: 18 August 1829
    Held by: Lewisham Local History and Archives Centre, not available at The National Archives

    …. for comparison with the record here.

  86. Julia, You now have found her though clever searching. I wanted to discover how much and what comes up when I google Christine’s name plus the word Beckenham.

  87. Would love to locate a pen pal with whom I shared a correspondence in the 1950’s. Her name and mailing address in those years –
    Christine Stenning – 41 South Eden Park Road – Beckenham Kent, England. Another source gave a possible marriage name as Dolman. I have retained all of her letters from that time indicating she was attending art school to become an art teacher. I would enjoy contacting if she continues to live in the area. Thanks if anyone knows a source to contact.

  88. As the Langley Estate, whether referred to as Langley Park or Langley Place is not under a separate heading on this site perhaps it can be expanded on here?
    Hasted records this:
    LANGLEY-PARK is a seat of eminent account in this parish, which was formerly accounted a manor, and in the reign of the Conqueror was part of the vast estate of Odo, bishop of Baieux, and earl of Kent; and is thus, if I mistake not, described in the general survey of Domesday, taken in that reign:

    Goisfridus de Ros holds of the bishop (of Baieux) Lasela. It was taxed at 7 shillings. The arable land is . . . . . . . In demesne there are 3 carucates, and 31 villeins, with 14 borderers having 16 carucates. There are 10 servants, and one fishery producing fourscore and 10 eels; wood for the pannage of 55 hogs. The whole manor was worth, in the time of king Edward the Confessor, 30 pounds, when he received it 16 pounds, and now 24 pounds, what Goisfridus held; what Richard of Tonbridge held in his lowy was rated at 6 pounds; what the king held of this manor, 22 shillings. Brixi Cilt held it of king Edward.

    This place afterwards came into the possession of the family of Malmaines, who were settled at Waldershare in this county, in the time of the Conqueror. John de Malmaines obtained a charter of free warren for his lands in Begenham, in the 12th year of king Edward II. which was renewed to Henry Malmaines, of Cliffe, in the 3d year of king Edward III. (fn. 22)

    It appears by the Book of Aid, in the 20th year of king Edward III. that Nicholas Malmains held half a knight’s fee of the king in Begenham. He died, in the 23d year of that reign, possessed of much land in this county; (fn. 23) before the end of which, the property of this manor was transferred by sale to Langley, a name most probably taken from this place, though the family itself has been long since extinct. These Langleys of Beckingham were, most probably, adistinct family from those of Knowlton in this county, who were originally descended from a family of that name in the county of Warwick.

    The last of this name here was Ralph Langley, who died in the 30th year of king Henry VI. and by his will directed Langley, with the rest of his demesnes in Beckenham, to be sold for discharging his debts; in pursuance of which it was passed away by sale to John Violett, who bore for his arms, Gules, three coronets, or, whose descendants enjoyed it until the beginning of the reign of king Henry VIII. when it was conveyed to John Stile, alderman of London. (fn. 24)

    He was the son of William Style of Ipswich, was afterwards knighted, and of the Drapers company, and dying in 1500, was buried in Allhallows Barking church, London. He married Elizabeth, daughter and coheir of Sir Guy Wolston of London, by whom he had Sir Hum- phrey Style, of Langley, who was one of the esquires of the body to king Henry VIII. and sheriff of this county in the 35th year of the same reign. He died in 1557, and was buried in Beckenham church. He procured a grant from Sir Thomas Wriothesley, garter principal king at arms, reciting, that not being willing to bear arms in prejudice to the other branches of his family, he had petitioned for a coat, with a proper difference, which the said king at arms, in 1529, granted, under his hand and seal, viz. Sable, a fess engrailed between three fleurs de lis, within a bordure or, the fess fretted of the field.

    He procured, with others, an act of parliament in the 2d and 3d years of king Edward VI. for the disgavelling of his lands in this county. (fn. 25)

    By his first wife, Bridget, daughter of Sir Thomas Baldrey, he had three sons; Edmund, born at Langley, in 1538; Oliver, who was sheriff of London, and ancestor of the Styles, of Watringbury, barts. and Nicholas, who was knighted.

    From Edmund Style of Langley, esq. before-mentioned, eldest son of Sir Humphrey, descended Sir Humphry Style of Langley, eldest son of William, who was gentleman of the privy-chamber to king James, and cupbearer to king Charles I. and was created a baronet, by privy-seal, on the 20th of May, 1627. (fn. 26) But though this branch was the elder to those of Watringbury, yet these last were the senior baronets, being created April 21, 1627, anno 3 Charles I. He died in 1650, and was buried in the vault at Beckenham church, and leaving no issue, his title became extinct, and he was succeeded in this estate at Langley by his half-brother, William, the eldest son of William Style by his second wife, Mary, daughter of Sir Robert Clarke, one of the barons of the exchequer.

    This William Style of Langley, esq. was bred a barrister at law, and was of the society of the Inner Temple. He married Elizabeth, sole daughter and heir of William Duleing, by whom he had two sons, and two daughters, and dying in 1679, was buried in this church.

    Of the sons, the second, but only surviving son Humphry, succeeded his father at Langley, in whose time there were several coats of arms, as well of this family as of those they had intermarried with, painted in the windows of this house, but dying without issue male, his only daughter and heir, Elizabeth, carried it in marriage to Sir John Elwill, bart. (fn. 27) who died in 1727, without issue by her. This family of Elwill was of Exeter in Devonshire, who bore for their arms, Ermine on a chevron engrailed, between three eagles displayed gules, three annulets or, and were advanced to the dignity of a baronet, in the person of Sir John Elwill, in the 8th year of queen Anne’s reign. He was twice married, but left issue only, by his second wife, the daughter and heir of — Leigh of Egham, in Surry, by whom he had two sons, Sir John above-mentioned, and Edmund, who succeeded his brother in title and in this estate of Langley, and in 1732 transferred his property in it, together with the house, called Langley-house, the park, and also the north and south isles of the parish church of Beckenham, to Hugh Raymond of Great Saling, in Essex, esq. who settled them on his only son, Jones Raymond, esq. in tail general; remainder to his eldest daughter, Amy, who married Peter Burrell, esq. and her issue male. On his death his son, Jones Raymond, esq succeeded to this estate, and kept his shrievalty for this county at Langley in 1738, in which year he died, and was succeeded by his son, of the same name, who died unmarried in 1768, on which it descended, by the intail before-mentioned, to his sister, Amy, before mentioned, whose husband, Peter Burrell, esq. in her right, became possessed of it. He died in 1756, having had by her, who survived him, four sons and two daughters. Mrs. Burrell, his widow, afterwards resided here, and died in 1794, on which this seat descended, together with her other estates in this parish, to her grandson, sir Peter Burrell, bart. since created lord Gwydir, of whom a full account has already been given, and he is the present possessor of this seat, with the park and grounds belonging to it.

    End of quote.
    I can only add that maps in the British Library show a complex interweave of land owners in the area around 1780 which map shows the intended South Eden Park road albeit very feintly. Accepting Hasted’s reference to Hugh Raymond who acquired the estate after surviving his liabilities after the South Sea Bubble affair both Hugh and Jones Raymond have memorials in St. Georges Church. An earlier undated map showing the south of the estate belonging to Jones Raymond ie pre 1768? also shows parts of the estate leased to Thomas Hatton and Richard Cooper as farmers. This map refers to ‘Langley Place’. Jones Raymond also acquired much of the Manor of Foxgrove on a map of 1766. A paper roll map of 1809 which is after several land exchanges between the Burrells and John Cator who had held land around Kelsey, Eden Farm and Langley shows Langley Park and most of the area south of Beckenham village in good detail with other landowners indicated where necessary. Such as Francis Motley Austin, Henry Hoare, John ( Barwell) Cator, Joseph Cator etc. That map also shows footprints of buildings in good detail.
    At this time under the ownership of Peter Burrell/Lord Gwydyr a book of plans of parts of the estate leased to tenants is also in the British Library. The book of plans is particularly interesting as it shows in pencil annotation which crops were planted in which fields in or around that year. It becomes difficult to refer to estates as contiguous areas as most of them were epicentres based on grand houses with some satellite sites near and far.
    Some provision on this site for adding images of maps etc. would perhaps be of use.

  89. To Hazel Jackson:
    PS. The reference in British History online is drawn from either or both of Daniel Lysons Environs of London or Hasted’s History and Topography of Kent. Lysons seems to have copied most of Hasted with additions? The map evidence seems to both confirm and contradict some content of these. Hasted has some errors or typos eg getting Jones Raymonds date of death wrong I believe.
    Certainly the map dated circa 1780 demonstrates that Cator held much more land around Kelsey, Eden Farm and Langley. Rob Copeland must have found the Foxgrove Manor plan as he passed a copy of it to Bromley Local Studies with his archive. Not having the benefit of digital photography maybe he acquired a photocopy. It was only upon discovering the original Foxgrove Plan that we discovered the Beckenham Manor plan and other British Library material some of which were in the same folio of maps.

  90. To try to answer Hazel Jackson’s questions:
    As I was primarily researching Beckenham Place Park and Cator we stumbled upon these maps of the wider area.
    The Henry Hoare reference is only to the 1809 map and the site of the old manor house opposite St. Georges.
    The 1780 (circa) map refers to the Kelsey park area as ‘gardens of Peter Burrell’ and a lodge referred to as ‘let to Richard Henry Alexander Bennett’ which seems to be a house with corner turrets. The whole of the Kelsey park area is blank apart from the ‘gardens’ reference so no lakes are shown. the maps purpose was to show land possession more than detail although some sites do have more detail. I suspect the map relates to some Burrell/Cator exchanges of which there were at least three referred to on our beckenhamplaceparkfriends.org.uk history page.
    The 1809 map shows greater detail of the ‘Burrell Estate’ including Kelsey Park with many fields numbered but any index of field names is missing. Kelsey Park shows two lakes, a large upper lake and small lower lake presumably separated by a wier or fall. I’m happy to share the photos we took subject to the restrictions of the British Library copyright ie low res images not for profit sharing.
    The 1809 map was also accompanied by a volume of 50 drawings of various Burrell estate sites which were leased. This includes Kelsey park in similar detail as the 1809 map with details of fields and sizes and showing ‘Richard Henry Alexander Bennett Esq – Tenant’. Contact me via bpp.friends@hotmail.co.uk and I’ll share some images with you.
    Thanks for the extra detail re Bennett and the Burrells marriage, I was aware of a connection but not found out that much.
    I think the 1799 OS drawing lacks some detail as it was a working drawing and the length of the lake involves a significant drop in land level so wiers or falls would be necessary. I think I can see a division and boat house on it though indistinct. Let me know if we can help in any way.

  91. Mal Mitchell has recently posted some information on this website about two estate maps of Kelsey in the British Library dated 1780 and 1809, as follows:.

    “British Library has estate plans of 1780 and 1809 showing the Kelsey Park area under the ownership of the Burrells and Cator. The 1809 shows the lake and two quite separate buildings of about the same footprint as the old manor house opposite the church, though significantly smaller than Eden Farm at that time. The grounds are laid out as gardens and orchard with the grounds around the old manor in the possession of Henry Hoare and some land to the rear of the George Inn owned by Francis Motley Austin. The 1780 plan just describes it as land belonging to Peter Burrell Esq. but Amy Burrell was widowed by this time and prior to the Peter Burrell who became Lord Gwydir by inheritance? The 1780 plan shows some lands adjacent to Kelsey Park along what is now Wickham Road belonging to John Cator and others, some leased to tenants. Gatton Mead, Barnfield House (Stones Farm) let to Parsons? Along what is now Manor Way a house owned by Peter Burrell is let to Rt Hon ??? Bennett Esq. Some writing is faded and unclear but offers and window into details at this time. As Cator and Burrell undertook land exchanges by the 1790’s Cator had removed from the Kelsey area though he still owned the triangle of land enclosed by Chancery Lane, Wickham Road and Bromley Road as well as land nearer Bromley and Shortlands. The plans show more pictoriallly than can be explained in words. “

    I am very interested in this as I am currently doing some research into the Lakes at Kelsey Park. The maps referred to are not viewable online, only in person, and I cannot currently get to the British Library so I wonder if I can ask some questions.

    Firstly, the comment that “British Library has estate plans of 1780 and 1809 showing the Kelsey Park area under the ownership of the Burrells and Cator. The 1809 map shows the lake and two quite separate buildings of about the same footprint as the old manor house opposite the church,( though significantly smaller than Eden Farm at that time.) The grounds are laid out as gardens and orchard with the grounds around the old manor in the possession of Henry Hoare.” Is this referring to the original manor house on the Kelsey Park estate, only I thought the Hoares did not come into the ownership of any of Kelsey Park until the sale of the Langley Park estate including Kelsey in 1820? There is a reference in British History Online to Mr Burrell acquiring land from Mr Cator, but before 1809, and living on it in some style. The Old Manor House is not referred to in the 1820 sale particulars. Maybe Baron Gwyndir, Mr Burrell’s grandson who inherited the Langley estate from his grandmother Amy Burrell,(Mr Burrell’s wife) had moved into Langley Park by then.

    Secondly, how many lakes are shown in Kelsey Park on the 1809 map? The BL has an OS drawing of 1799 of Kelsey showing only one lake. The Sale map of 1820 shows two lakes, so it would be helpful to narrow down the date when two lakes were created, by knowing how many lakes are shown on the 1809.

    Thirdly Mr Richard Bennett referred to in the original posting, who recneted the house on Manor Way, was an MP who married Mr Burrell’s eldest daughter Elizabeth Amelia in 1766 and the records record that her father built Upper Lake House for them to live in. I thought this was accessed a lodge on via Manor way.

  92. The map we found in the British Library circa 1780 has annotation ‘Monks Orchard belonging to Trecothick Esq.’
    this is http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1754-1790/member/trecothick-barlow-1718-75
    Barlow Trecothick, one time alderman and lord mayor of London. TRECOTHICK, Barlow (?1718-75), of Addington, Surr. His will leaves property to his wife. Excerpt from HOPonline…..In January 1768 Trecothick purchased for £38,500 the Addington estate of about 5,000 acres. He owned together with the Thomlinson family a plantation in Grenada; and according to a writer in the Gazetteer of 19 Mar. 1768, friendly to him, ‘a considerable estate in Jamaica’, but only property ‘let at £70 or 80 p.a.’ in North America.
    The Burrell estate maps of 1809 shows land west of Monks Orchard as belonging to Croydon Hospital. Substantial parts may be in the hands of Peter Burrell/Lord Gwydyr

  93. visited Harvington today with a gps fixing for Eden Lodge. Found old foundations and brickwork in the woodland undergrowth. The large cedar in the woodland could have been on front garden of the lodge

  94. The 1809 map of Burrell estates shows Harvington area as a series of fields numbered to go along with a key to the map but unfortunately the key is missing. Kelseys is to the north, Eden Farm to the west and Langley Farm to the east. No buildiings are shown along what is now South Eden Park Road. The Burrell estates were sold in 1820 which may have led to the building of Eden Lodge. google search ‘nls kent xv’ would bring up the National Library of Scotland archive ordnance survey sheet kent xv for this area showing Eden Lodge. contact me for more details of the British Library material. We only stumbled on it while researching Beckenham Place and Foxgrove/Beckenham Manors. If anyone knows where the 1723 map mentioned by Robert Borrowman is archived I’d like to know, only seen the copy he made for his book.

  95. Prior to the five houses, and before the construction of South Eden Park Road, a map in the British Library of about 1780 shows much of Harvington owned by John Cator and Peter Burrell. Divided into woods and fields, Weblands Wood and fields name West and East Drege the map shows a penciled in outline of the intended South Eden Park Road which the Burrells constructed after land exchanges with John Cator as both of them were consilidating their relative estates. Cator to the north of Beckenham and Burrell to the south.
    An ordnance survey map of 1871 shows Eden Lodge, now demolished but the gatehouse remains? and current maps show the driveway though it is overgrown in, I guess, what is left of Weblands Wood.
    As Harvington nestled between Langley Park and Eden Park(Farm) presumably the Burrells leased or sold it. Other Burrell estate maps in the British Library of 1809 may reveal more.

  96. I’ve yet to rediscover the original map from 1723 that Borrowman drew from, but later maps and plans in the British Library illustrate changes in the High Street. Francis Motley Austin who it seems was a great uncle of Jane Austin, owned land to the rear of the George and perhaps the George itself in 1809 though he must have leased it. Beckenham Lodge appears on an 1809 map as ‘The executors of Lawrence Banyer’. Property annotation seems to show that the Burrells were landlords of most of the south side of the high street. Though a Mr Jackson and Poole Esq. owned sites approximately where village way is today. In 1776 John Cator had acquired some sites on the north side of the high street and of course the long lost rectory opposite the church designed by Robert Adam was approximately behind Marks and Spencers.

  97. An 1809 map of the Burrell estate in the British Library including Langley Park, Kelsey etc. shows Eden Farm as a large footprint building with two wings, with outbuildings and landscaped grounds, kitchen garden etc. equidistant between Elmers End and Langley Farm. As stated just about where Crease Park is today. I hope this allows some narrowing down of the building of the elegant mansion.

  98. [quote][/quote]Maps in the British Library of Foxgrove Manor and Beckenham Manor show that nearly all of Beckenham Place was in Foxgrove Manor and none in Beckenham Manor. The maps are dated 1766, 1768 ad 1776. The plans illustrate that Cator owned part of the park prior to 1766 and his father in law states he built a fine house at Stumps Hill by 1762. Though some of the park land did not come into his possession until after 1777 as some fields were still owned by Amy Burrell. As he moved the road in 1785 we might assume he did not create his whole park until around that date. Land exchanges with the Burrells who had inherited Foxgrove Manor via Jones Raymond enabled the Burrells to become landlords of most of the area south of the High Street and the Cators mainly north of the High Street. Prior to 1780 Cator had acquired many plots of land south of the High Street presumably purchased in small lots but evidence is sketchy apart from the 1780 map of the Langley park area showing these divers ownerships between Cator and the Burrells. I would (naturally) recommend reading our updated history on beckenhamplaceparkfriends.org.uk which builds upon the previous works by Eric Inman and Pat Manning following the works of Borrowman and Rob Copeland with evidence provided via the aforesaid maps. The 1773 date seems to originate in Hasted’s History of Kent and only relates to Cators purchase of Beckenham Manor from Viscount Bolingbroke (also holding the Viscount St John title). Even at that time Bolingbroke has already sold the Old Manor house opposite St. Georges with its grounds to the Burrells. As Cator did not acquire the old manor house his Stumps Hill residence became his manor house after acquiring the ‘lordship of the Beckenham Manor estate. Other evidence is always welcome and we still dispute the Linnaeus connection as it was only via Cators father in law Peter Collinson and no evidence that Linnaeus visited Beckenham has been found.

  99. Thank you very much for making this site available. It allows me to think in more depth about my relatives and ancestors and to read about their lives and see photographs of where they lived. My mother told me that she was born in Beckenham and I have recently been researching my past. I already knew my grandmother’s dear brother was killed in the First World War, and to actually see the name of Henry Thomas Drake on the memorial was a truly touching experience.The very strange coincidence is that my son now lives in Crystal Palace so when I visit him I can take time out to really look around the area as he is so near.

  100. Interested in “In Pursuit of the Perfects” as I am related to Iris Beazley.. could you please put me in touch with Pat Manning or Andre Perfect?
    Much appreciated
    Heather

  101. Joseph Cator occupied Clockhouse from 1782 until his death in 1818. An estate plan in Bromley Local Studies shows the date, area of fields etc. I guess the plan went with property deeds? we have a copy of the plan from the library.

  102. I never realised what an amazing history this area has! I went to Langley park Grammar School for girls in the 1970s when Wellcome laboratories was still there. Can anyone tell me anything at all about the very large Victorian house set back from South Eden Park Road?? It’s on the left hand side as you come from Eden Park going towards the Chinese garage. Is it one of the 5 big houses built there in the late 1800s?? Maybe the last one left? Thanks.

  103. Hi Roy, you sent me an email.
    There is probably a connection with the Kings Hall Cinema that once stood quite close by in Penge High Street, to the south of the railway. Opened about the time Kings Hall Road was developed. An extract from ‘Cinema Treasures’ states:
    Kings Hall Cinema Penge
    Located in the southeast London district of Penge. The Kings Hall Electric Theatre opened as a
    cinema by 1910, in what had been a public hall. Seating was provided for 550, which was later
    increased to 770.
    Taken over by the Hyams Brother’s circuit in 1920, they engaged architect Cecil Masey to
    rebuild and enlarge the cinema. It had a two storey facade in white Portland stone, with a
    recessed balcony over the entrance that had square pillars supporting the upper section. It reopened
    in 1920 with a seating capacity of 1,200. A small 1 Manual Hill, Norman & Beard pipe
    organ was installed in 1925. It was taken over by Denman/Gaumont British Theatres from
    17th March 1929 and re-named Kings Hall.
    Renamed the Gaumont in 1955, it was an early closure, when the final programme “A Time to
    Love and A Time to Die” starring John Gavin and “Quantez” starring Fred MacMurray played
    on 27th September 1958. The building was demolished and a garage/petrol station was built
    on the site. Today, there are three retail units with flats above located at the site.
    http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/26446
    See attached photo.
    Good luck John

    1. I believe The Kings Hall Cinema in Beckenham was opened by my great grandmother Louisa Jane Cooper c1910. My great grandmother, Louisa Jane Hughes (nee Russell) was born in Bermondsey in 1866 and amongst other things ran boarding houses in Kings Hall Road. On the list of lodgers at 1911 census are members of the The Kings Hall Electric Theatre company including a flim splicer and technician along with family members and others totaling 14 occupiers. We are still researching about our family and your info adds greatly. Thanks, Rob Hughes.

  104. I have been doing some family research and found that a cousin of mine lived at 110 Arpley Road towards end of 1800s and into 20th century. John & Frances Frost had 8 children there and a grandchild from another daughter also lived there. The houses do not look very large! What a terrific collection, thank you for sharing them. I wonder if you would allow me to post a picture of Arpley Road on my family tree in Ancestry?

  105. I was born in Stone Park Maternity Hospital in 1938 (not 1939 opening) as per my original birth certificate.

  106. Anybody know the basis for the name ‘King’s Hall Road?’ Not been able to find any reference to a King’s Hall.

  107. “About the middle of the 19th century much land in Beckenham was bought by the Birkbeck Freehold Lane Society, founded in 1851 by Francis Ravenscroft. He needed a name that would guarantee the integrity of his Society, and chose that of BIRKBECK.”
    Please do you have any references for these suggestions of the names?
    Also the land was owned by the Birkbeck Building Society and Birkbeck Freehold Land Society and not “Lane.”
    Read more at http://heritagearchives.rbs.com/companies/list/birkbeck-bank.html
    Also may I humbly suggest that it is more likely Francis Wall Mackenzie Ravenscroft named Mackenzie Road after himself, in the same way he had named Ravenscoft Road. Though, he himself, may well have been named for Col. Colin Mackenzie.

  108. Interesting and nice story and well appreciated about a great person, such an icon and it seems even more now. So sad of his death – tragic! Will be at the Beckenham Festival on 13th August to celebrate and be part of this funding excercise. Best regards RS 🙂

  109. Thank you for your article about David Bowie.I like to listen his music, especially, his albom “Reality”. And I very sad, that I can’t listen David Bowie’s alive music again.

  110. I was born and brought up in Beckenham, living in Beck Lane as a small child. My great grandmother, Ellen Hastings, ran a confectionery shop in Churchfields Rd and her husband was a brick maker, possibly in the brick field mentioned. They moved to Churchfields from a shop in Harrington Rd on the other side of the Beckenham Cemetery.

  111. Has anyone any information about Thayers Farm? Was Thayer an individual, or the name of a field? I live on this road and would be very interested to know anything about it.

  112. I have been taking much interest in the Churchfields area . Especially the former Corporation Land that once had the Arthur Road Dust Destructor onsite , various Sub Stations and Municipal Depot . All that remains is Churchfields main 33/11 kV Sub Stn . Also I found a recent Bottle Tip in the area , it seems to date from around 1932 . But strangely part of the land may have already been allotments when it was tipped . Question , was Maberley Playing field once Allotments too , or had that been dumped on too in the past ?

  113. Dear William, What a lovely and welcomed surprise to hear from you. I have been researching my wider Shaw family for more than 40 years now and have acquired a wealth of information including your whole lineage. I contacted your grandfather in September 2000 and he was extremely helpful and went out of his way to assist me with information. In a detailed letter he informed me that his father, Fred, 1883-1963, was the son of Eyre Massey Shaw, (in turn the son of the fire chief) and a domestic maid and that together they eloped to Montreal where Fred Sr. was born. I have a serious problem with this account as I know Eyre Massey Shaw Jr. was on the Congo river working for the enterprise of Henry Morton Stanley at the same time he was supposed to be in Montreal. The following year, 1884, mother and child returned to London where they lived at the Clock House in Beckenham. My No. 1 priority is to try and verify this story. I was in touch with Kevin a year or two ago but our e-mail contact petered out from his side. I was hoping he would have been able to shed light on this whole issue having presumably inherited his father’s papers. There is so much more info I could share with you but will leave it there for now. There is a note above which states that e-mail addresses will not be displayed. Although this website is specifically “Beckenham” that is a fairly trivial aspect of this whole Massey Shaw saga so I am hoping the webmaster will allow me to mention my e-mail address so that we can pursue a wider correspondence that has nothing to do with Beckenham. The address is rugeos@icon.co.za Thanks a lot. Eyre Shaw. Outside my immediate family I am known as George.

    letter

  114. My name is William Rickarby. My mother Colleen Joan Massey-Shaw was the eldest surviving daughter of Frederick Massey-Shaw. She died in 1998. She was the sixth child of the family. She had 4 older brothers and 2 younger sisters. An older sister died before she was born. Her youngest sister Margaret is still alive. Margaret lives in Hampshire. She is in her 80s. It may be that she and I can help you with some information . There is one surviving male Massey-Shaw – my first cousin Kevin who lives in Virginia USA . He was the second child and only son of my uncle Frederick Verdun Massey-Shaw, who was born in 1916 (hence his middle name). If I can help further please email me.

  115. Such a great historical post. It is very wonderful post for me I glad to read this post And i must share this with others Thanks for sharing Beckenham history Keep posting. Great to see no spam or adverts posted.

  116. The licensee of The George was James Whelller and not Wheeler. I know because he was my great great grandad. His son took over after him.

  117. I was wallowing in nostalgia for Kelsey Park when I came across this section showing my cousins David Sylvian and Steve Jansen. Incidentally my Husband Geoff was also born in Beckenham in the old Maternity Hospital.

  118. My name is Eyre Shaw and I live in Johannesburg. I am distantly related to the London Fire Chief, Sir Eyre Massey Shaw, 1828-1908. I have written information from a primary source that a baby boy, Frederick Massey Shaw, 1883-1963, supposedly a grandson of the fire chief lived at the Beckenham Clockhouse with his mother (name not known as birth believed to be illegitimate) shortly after his birth in Montreal, Canada, after which his mother returned to England. I am desperate to verify this information and if possible to find out more about this mother/son combination —- local churches for baptisimal records, schools, etc. I would therefore be extremely grateful if anyone could assist me in this matter of to refer me to a genealogist or archivist with local knowledge. Sincerely, Eyre George Shaw

  119. I was born in Churchfield Road in 1930 at No 57 ,went to Churchfield Road School and got married in the then St Augustine Church
    also in Churchfield Road.

  120. Your article is so nice and interesting. I like it so much because its very helpful and informative for me. I love cricket and i also playing cricket. Thanks for nicely sharing.

  121. It was very moving visiting that bandstand today with my two young boys and seeing the tributes. I grew up in Beckenham and was 11 in 1972 when the fame really hit. I did have the good fortune that year to see Mick Ronson in Beckenham Junction car-park wearing a shiny metallic jumpsuit and stack boots. I followed him a bit, pushing my bike, as he headed up the road to Haddon Hall but bottled it…

  122. Hi I also used to play sitar at the Arts lab in the Three Tuns on a Sunday evening. Bowie used ask me to come down and do a spot. I used to live just along the road from there. It was quite a scene in those days and full of new stuff.

  123. Hi Clem,

    I tried tracking you down when I was putting these pages together. If you have anything that you would like to contribute contact me via the site.

    Admin

  124. Whoa! such an informative post, all the details of the books that you have shared with us is amazing and really useful. I am thankful to the author for such an essential sharing! Great work!

  125. My grandfather John (or James) Milliken was born in Pennsylvainia in the late 1800s. Any information about this Parish will be most welcomed.

  126. Born 1946 Maternity hospital ,stone park avenue. Lived with parents and brother Keith Bushey Way and Kenwood Drive,park Langley until being packed off to boarding school in 1960
    First school Bromley road (is it still there)and then Barnhill(pickhurst rise demolished about mid sixties)
    Although parents divorced my early years in Beckenham were fantastic. Loved it!

  127. It was my 5th Great Grandparents that had Leven’s bakery in High Street Bckenham, does anyone have any old pictures? Thanks in anticipation

  128. If you would like to contribute to this page please use the contact button on the site and I will upload it to the site.

  129. This is the very first time that I have posted an article on your Website. I would be very interested to find out if you have any articles about Penge that I can read or contribute to, please.

  130. I went to Beckenham Free Festival but got there late and missed Bowies’s set. Mind you, I did see him play the Three Tuns on several occasions.

    I have great memories of the music of this era, and of various festivals. I saw the Blind Faith and Stones Hyde Park shows that year (1969), and also went to the National Jazz and Blues Festival at Plumpton in East Sussex (The Who, Floyd etc).

  131. Hello Pat. Thank you for the information, I am grateful and I will look into it. Thank you again. Jan

  132. Two ways. Ask the Bromley library to look up The Laurels in one of the Directories that contains the house names nearest to 1911. Use the 1911 census to find the properties next door. I used the 1916 Kelly’s Directory that I have on my computer and I found a house called The Laurels on Elmers End Rd between Ancaster and Gwydor Rds. These are near the station and some of the older houses are still there.
    Hope this is of some use.

  133. Good morning. I’m trying to trace a house in Elmers End Road Beckenham that had a lord Haldon living in it in 1911. Family surname Palk. My grandmother and 3 of her sons also lived there as servants. I’m wondering if the Laurels is still standing and exactly whereabouts it is situated if it is. Thank you for all your help. Jan Buckett

  134. Hello,
    I am trying to get in touch with a Gosling family who may be living in Beckenham. Henry Gosling lived in Upper Norwood and died on 14th December 1979. The death was registered by his son Leslie who lived at 130 Churchfields Road, Beckenham. He sadly also died in 1994. I have not been able to trace a living relative so far. The reason is the Henry’s sister, Edith Mary Ann Gosling was my grandmother so we are related. Henry also took over the Scott family bot & shoe repair business in the 1930’s (I think). Thanks.

  135. Dear Beckenham History, I have a question about an ancestor who lived in Beckenham in 1840 and was listed as a “publican”, which I understand means an innkeeper. He lived there with his wife Ann and daughters Elizabeth and Martha, and I wonder if this much information could lead to knowing more about them and their family. Their daughter Ann Barker emigrated to New York State in the US and married Phinehas Scothon, whose family I know included millers in England and here in the US.

  136. I am searching for picture images of the Victorian houses that stood in Southend Road (west side) between Brackley Road and Stumps Hill Lane. I believe these properties were demolished in the 60’s for redevelopment in the area.

  137. If you go to Photo Album then select Gallery 1 then click on Spa to Memorial from left hand drop down menu you will find photos of Beckenham Baths.

  138. I have been searching for so long to find pictures of Beckenham Road Baths – the baths in the 1970s. Number 1, 2 and 3 pool. I have wonderful memories of swimming there almost every day. The cafe upstairs with the balcony viewing area for number 1 pool. The long walk down the corridors to number 2 pool and finally number 3 pool at the very end with the deep end of the pool actually being in the middle of the pool. I remember Vince Lamp who taught me to swim and canoe. The Kerr family living in the house on site, Joan on reception and that very cool ticket machine they used to use for your entry for a swim (almost like what the bus conductors used to use).

    Then there was the scholarship time trails once a year to earn you a free entry for a whole year. No diving blocks, they used to use towels on the edge of the pool. And talking of towels – I remember you could hire a rough white towel for your swim!

    Ken Hodges was the pool supervisor in my days!

    Why are there no pictures anyway on any site of this wonderful pool? If anyone can help – I would be very grateful.

    My mum still swims at the new pool after swimming every week there for over 50 years!!

  139. I have been searching for so long to find pictures of Beckenham Road Baths – the baths in the 1970s. Number 1, 2 and 3 pool. I have wonderful memories of swimming there almost every day. The cafe upstairs with the balcony viewing area for number 1 pool. The long walk down the corridors to number 2 pool and finally number 3 pool at the very end with the deep end of the pool actually being in the middle of the pool. I remember Vince Lamp who taught me to swim and canoe. The Kerr family living in the house on site, Joan on reception and that very cool ticket machine they used to use for your entry for a swim (almost like what the bus conductors used to use).

    Then there was the scholarship time trails once a year to earn you a free entry for a whole year. No diving blocks, they used to use towels on the edge of the pool. And talking of towels – I remember you could hire a rough white towel for your swim!

    Ken Hodges was the pool supervisor in my days!

    Why are there no pictures anyway on any site of this wonderful pool? If anyone can help – I would be very grateful.

    My mum still swims at the new pool after swimming every week there for over 50 years!!

  140. Many of these acts are still performing after all those years. It was good to see Bill Leisagang of Appendix Part One perform at this years festival. Bowie himself contributed items for the raffle.

  141. This article is of great interest to me.I was born in No 93 Churchfields rd 1935. I remember my mother not allowing my brother and I to go to the top of the street due to the Authur being hit and body parts everywhere .

  142. Thank for these videos, the fire of Crystal Palace really helped me with my project. Are they ever going to rebuild at the site. I remember reading something in the news?

  143. Wow, the first time I have ever seen anything on the BFF. I was at the original festival in 1969 and this brings it all back. I dont think I remember The Strawbs all the same.